I actually understand why it makes sense, simplification and best performance for GPU intensive context, yet it feels like «let’s virtualize, not really».

2015+) you can use this howto: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Intel_GVT-g. Adapt from Arch Linux if you have something else.

I was planning on an AMD GPU, since nvidia famously has bad Linux support and I don’t want the driver headaches.

BUT – all the hardware lists I come across warn you not to buy AMD GPUs because they are buggy: https://passthroughpo.st/vfio-increments/

So which is it? Do I have to just put up with the driver problems on the linux side?

Also, you might want to really think about the GPU and its use-cases, newer isn’t always better, because there are some specific ones you can buy that’ll let you also run another OS 10 in a VM effortlessly 🙂

At the end of the day this all pretty much powered by Qemu, KVM, and virtio. So if you can’t find a resources for «looking glass» then just go to one of the the sources above.

The open source driver. the open source driver crashes at least one a week driving two monitors. I gave up on it.

I ran the 3 OS using a Proxmox (Linux) host and three guest VMs.

Also check out their GitHub and quickstart, they have more details. The main thing is you have to run it both on Linux and Windows.

Definitely going to try this out, but I wonder if it’s worth paying for when I have a free alternative that does most of what I need it to do.

I’ve been using NoMachine and it works very well. Others I know are using Teradici, or HP Remote Graphics.

Depends on how you use the OpenGL API. OpenGL display lists, once compiled, are extremly light on the connection. However they’re also deprecreated and no longer supported in (forward compatible) OpenGL-3.3 core. But then again there’s no 3.3 GLX specification.

As I understand it, when you open an OpenGL application inside Xvnc (et al) on :1, a shim is LD_PRELOADed that quietly redirects the OpenGL initialization calls so they create an offscreen buffer associated with Xorg at :0 (which is presumably sitting on a 3D-capable GPU).

Said Xorg can be displaying a black screen (or be being used for arbitrary purposes); no windows are ever displayed on it. Theoretically, avoiding compositing WMs may aid performance.

The graphics contexts should be well-contained on the host though. That the guest is leaking memory is kind of interesting.

And this is the command line to launch a guest:

Oh and when I say it is working «fairly well» I mean the a guest with a single vCPU runs a spinning cube with no sweat, not to mention glxgears etc. Just for a test I have done 4 guests ( one per physical core ) doing gears and spinning cube each in addition to the host itself doing spinning cube with no issue.

If only I could figure out how to fix this memory leak.

Thanks for the info. I probably don’t have the hardware setup to run VMs at the moment (chronically low on RAM + do not have a GPU). I will be very interested to play with this when that changes in the future.

The one question (if you notice this) I do have is: how quickly does the memory leak happen? And can just running glxgears do it?

The work VM which is typically connected to Github and work gmail needs to be restarted once every couple of days.

The play VM which would have a Chromium with a dozen tabs open can can take

1 hour depending on the content in tabs.

I notice the memory leak when Sublime that I run on the host itself starts dropping key press speed ( I run «xset r rate 400 50» ). Killing VMs or restarting them makes everything go back to normal.

I’ve ran glxgears for

2 hours now with no significant leak. I will probably leave it overnight to see if something as simple as it can be used as a leak example.

I’m going to speculate the key is heavy usage of GLX something that only Chromium does as I have left a desktop with an xterm running top for two days and no leaks were detected on a play vm. So it is not just virtgl in QEMU being exposed to the guest, initialized by the guest and interfaced by the guest via virtio, but actually using virgl on a host to do rendering. Maybe virtual context creation/release cycle?

P.S. I originally made this work on my super light laptop ( i7-6500U with 8G ), so you don’t need a beefy rig for it although there’s a bug in recent Intel GPU libraries used by mesa that sometimes lock it up. I initially attributed it to something I did but it was not:

kitty, alacritty, and even Chromium would sometimes lock up with intel iGPUs.

Feel free to reach out — my email address in a profile here. I check it here and there.

«Depending on the content in tabs». Might be interesting to graph the leak rate (in KB/min or MB/min) and maybe either record the screen or limit to one or two websites at a time to narrow down what causes the most issues. Besides video playback, CSS animations come to mind as a potential source of GLX acceleration caused by random/mainstream websites.

Virtual context creation+release could indeed be the problem. FWIW https://github.com/cyrus-and/chrome-remote-interface makes using Chrome’s remote debug protocol (to open and close tabs) utterly trivial; or you could just run multiple concurrent browsers with —user-data-dir=somewhere (probably actually much easier to work with).

Chromium aside, another potentially useful trigger may be Unity games — the last(/first/only) time I tried to fire one up my laptop (i5-3360M + HD Graphics 3000) I was scrambling for ^C^C^C while everything slowed to a crawl and the system climbed (impressively quickly) past 97°C 😉 (thankfully(!) nothing froze — thanks for the Intel lockup reference), so perhaps that could be a very effective trigger.

I’ll keep your email address in mind; email is a bit of a long-term sore point due to Gmail constantly slowing everything to a crawl, and I’m currently using 8GB of swap (need to close some tabs) so I replied here so I could respond in a timely manner.

It would be nice if there was a X11 «media» extension to transport encoded image streams (aka video) with server side decoding into Pixmaps, Xv or SHM buffers.

4k @32 bit color is

3.5Gbit/sec at 60 fps or 1.6Gbit/sec for 30fps.

Modern video cards and CPUs are fast. With no optimizations I can screen grab a fully rendered X11 4k x 5 screen in

100ms on i7-4790 CPU from a GTX 1060 ( did it yesterday when I discovered that Looking Glass does not support Linux guest). Some people that I know who are in the graphics business claim that using MIT shared memory extension they can do nearly 1000 fps for a single 4k screen.

Iperf (TCP) with no network optimization and no shared memory a-la Looking Glass between host and guest gets 2.5Gbit/sec.

Why not just do a PCI pass through to a virtualized ( or dedicated ) graphics card to guest, run an X server on it and stream raw frames from guest to host? It surely can do at least 30fps on a modern workstation or over a 10G network with no frame loss.

Because we’re talking about remote desktop over low bandwidth connections. If push comes to shove you can use Xpra over dial-up.

Of course the more elegant solution then is to use some virtio based graphics pass-through driver doing all that, without running MIT-SHM screen grabber X11 clients shoving around frames. I want less kludges, not more.

I’m presuming this implies there’s already a non-theoretical solution for remote desktop over high bandwidth connections ( say over 10Gbit/sec ) that would allow me to run a spinning cube at 30 frames per second at 4k without frame drops? What is it? I have been looking for one for years!

> Of course the more elegant solution then is to use some virtio based graphics pass-through driver doing all that, without running MIT-SHM screen grabber X11 clients shoving around frames. I want less kludges, not more.

That would be Looking Glass, but its author’s position is (paraphrasing) «Stuff like this already exists for Linux so there’s no support for a Linux guest». Alas, no one can point to it.

VNC and similar systems have the right idea about remote desktop access.

The RDP-server, and -client implementations are mature on all common platforms, with a well-supported common minimum protocol version support.

For anything but localhost I try to use RDP.

> graphics are now drawn as bitmap at server side and sent in whole to the client.

Whenever I go to a Product-Page like this one, I’m instantly turned off by the flashiness and wordy prose.

I want a feature list, in text form, not an intro-movie!

Before closing the tab i did notice though, that this product seems interesting, and I would have liked to read more about it.

Anyway: Here is the list of things I gathered from the comments (iiuc):

* Uses a fork of x.org with support for legacy Windows version removed.

* Costs 10$ if you find it on sale, 50$ otherwise.

* Can be installed on 10 PCs.

* Can be installed/updated via the AppStore.

* Has a windowed mode.

* Well-integrated into Windows 10 and WSL.

* Takes advantage of HyperV virtio vsock for small latency enhancement.

* If VcXsv or XMing are unstable for you, file a bugreport, and try if X410 is more stable.

* Cannot make use of hardware assisted rendering, because of underlying WSL limitation w.r.t GVT-g in some HW configurations

Windows 10 isn’t perfect, but it’s a lot better at not getting in the way.

It looks nice and all, but there are plenty of free options available that will do the same.

In my case, I’m mostly happy with the VSCode WSL2 integration. I keep all my projects on the linux fs and it is fast to work with. The only thing which annoys me is the window management in Windows. Too much Mouse movement and random ALT-TAB-ing.

I’ve never got i3 to work with a Windows x server on multiple displays with high dpi. X401 also only supports a single display.

However, it only solves the window placing problem, not the window navigation problem. I would love to navigate with something like SUPER + LEFT/RIGHT, similar to i3. Currently the only possible way is to (CTRL)+ALT+TAB, which completely lacks window layout context and changes order depending on recent uses.

* Adobe software, MS Office, pro audio, pro video, and other income-dependent software tools mostly run on Windows and/or Macs and don’t have a Linux version.

* Ease of asset management for the company (yes, it can be done with Linux, but Apple, MS and Google have great tools for managing huge numbers of computers). Google (Chrome) and Apple have a great story on configuration management by having much more consistent hardware.

* Company issued laptop (usually combined with the need for MS Office & corporate asset management)

Oh, and I love VS Code, but it really needs a full org-mode equivalent. It’s the only thing that keeps me reaching for Emacs at least once a day.

On Linux, if your third-party software is available at all, it’s on some third party repo you have to add manually, or maybe it’s a binary which may or may not work on your particular distribution on your particular version.

This is basically the reason why I gave up on Linux on the desktop, it just hasn’t gotten better in decades, it probably will never get better. The distributions have no incentive to make this work well, because first-party packages are a big selling point.

I’ll take a crappy default shell over that.

In my eyes, how Windows and Linux deal with third party software is identical.

The Windows model forever has been «you just double click an .exe or an .msi and it runs».

i.e. outside of stuff published on Windows Store (which many developers will not do), it’s down to the developer to:

— Distribute their software and provide an update mechanism (download an exe? Windows Store? chocolatey? Steam / epic games launcher / origin / uplay? jetbrains toolbox? adobe software updater?)

— Deal with the many different environments (i686 vs x84, Windows XP / 7 / 8 / 10 / 10 Home / 10 Pro / 10 Pro N* / 10 Basic Server Education Edition N RT for phones)

— (Probably) bundle their software with the exact version of the libraries they’re using (looking at you, «Installing Microsoft VC Redist» and DirectX, every single game that I run), because any in /system32 might be the «wrong» ones

* 10 Pro N = «without media essentials» or something, which I stupidly chose last time I forked out the money for a Windows license. Every time there’s a new major Windows update (assuming it doesn’t repeatedly fail to update, forcing me to reinstall from scratch,) I need to go and reinstall the Media Feature Pack so Rockstar Launcher and GTAV and $software don’t all fail to launch with an obscure error code that means one of 100 things that some corporate web forum rep will not have the answer to. Because none of them put a .log file somewhere .

So the fact that stuff «just runs» better on Win is more to do with third party developer effort rather than a failing of the OS and distribution. There’s no incentive for microsoft to make it work better either, because it’s Not Their Problem. A whole slew of software runs like bullshit on Windows too, but we just kind of accept it as it is.

Yet me running a program by installing Wine and double clicking the .exe, or via mono, or running one via a snap image, or an .AppImage, or a docker image (those 3 are essentially containerized environments which should work regardless of distro as they bundle their own libraries a la the windows dll hell, though your kernel version may cause issues, just like windows driver versions do), or my Linux distro’s packages. is apparently jumping through more hoops than Windows?

As a power user of both OS’es, they’re just as much a pain in the ass as each other.

Oh, and there are only one Windows distribution. Not at least 3 major ones.

These both make packaging for Linux hard (requiring kinda funny solutions wrapping up a sysroot as a whole, like Snap or AppImage), while on Windows, the developer builds an exe, and voila, it works everywhere, even on very old systems. There are simply no funky stuffs e.g. glibc symbol version issue.

* Corp Policy * Gaming * Professional Tools (Photoshop etc.) * Ease of Use

I tried concepts like dual booting windows & linux, but in the end they often created a mental barrier («Ugh, I could do some work but I would’ve to reboot»). With WSL2 and PowerToys I’m 90% happy. The missing 10% is a better window navigation via keyboard concept.

I really love what WSL has been doing so far and this would really take it to the next level. I’d actually consider switching my private computer to Windows.

To me the big selling points of both this and vcxsrv is using seamless windows so that the windows are just like any other windows-window and not like VNC or something where you get two desktops — one for local and one for remote.

In vcxsrv, and it seems this one as well, can also run a window manager. I tried i3 that way, but it is quite clunky and the shortcuts collided with windows native shortcuts in a bad way. Maybe there are fixes for that. But it will would still only be for linux apps and not windows apps.

Originally thinking it was another open source project, I looked at the website to see if there were some features that would be worth it to switch from VcXsrv. Mostly it talked about how there was a windowed mode that allowed seamless integration with Windows. Wow how revolutionary! /s

People will pay for convenience and polish. Also, i would guess that Windows users are not likely to be free software purists and just wants something that works with a minimum of fuss.

The price of software should be based on the value it provides to the user, not on what it cost to make it.

RedHat’s the first billion dollar Linux company, but first and foremost it’s a business. Their sales people are aggressive and their lawyer’s hungry. Support contracts don’t exactly fly off the shelves, especially when there’s a huge community of experts.

How many people do you know that have given money to Canonical for Ubuntu?

Also, RedHat stopped providing detail changelogs and started doing just one bug diff dump after Oracle started hurting their business — where Oracle’s work at the time was basically repackaging RedHat’s work and doing «sed s/RedHat Enterprise Linux/Oracle Unbreakable Linux». RedHat did what it felt needed to fend that off.

Up until that time, they were publishing their internal repositories.

There isn’t anything wrong with that at all. If someone is undermining RedHat’s business model it is reasonable for RedHat not to support them.

The spirit of the GPL is the source code should be available and the user can do what they like with it. RedHat makes the source code available and the user can do whatever they like with it. No principle says RedHat has to like what people do with their GPL-ed code. Quite the reverse is expected, in fact.

The spirit of the GPL is to make source code available. Why? So that anyone can maintain the software. Thus there’s an expectation (however naive) that the code is in a usable format because that’s kind of the point of having the source. RedHat, however, provides the source in an obtuse format, a format that isn’t even how it’s used it internally. That is to say, they go above and beyond, in order to make their source harder to use. I’d say that pretty directly violates the spirit, if not the letter of the GPL.

The other part is that the GPL explicitly grants customers the right to redistribute the changes. That’s pretty wild. Buying a DVD copy of Avengers doesn’t give me the right to setup Avengersflix.com and sell subscriptions. GPL software does. RedHat then turns around and says if you actually do that, then fuck you (paraphrased a bit). They are entirely within their rights to do that, but if you’re telling me the spirit of the GPL gives me a right that I’m not actually supposed to exercise, then we’ll just have to disagree. (Un)forunately for me, the legal system looks at the letter of the GPL rather than the spirit, so what Redhat’s doing is legal.

Why does the GPL explicitly grant that permission if it isn’t meant to be exercised? Why did RedHat choose the GPL?

They didn’t, is the answer. It chose them. The two fundamental pieces, GNU libc and the Linux kernel, are LGPL and GPLv2 licensed, respectively, along with many other packages, and relicensing them is not something RedHat has the rights to do.

Hence, RedHat’s strong-arm tactics to force people into buying expensive support contracts.

There’s nothing legally wrong with what they’re doing but it’s still a dick move by RedHat. Sure, RedHat’s dick move is in response to Oracle’s dick move, but two wrongs don’t make a right. They do make a billion dollar business though.

There are other more opinionated licenses that RedHat could adopt for new software that they do own the copyright to. For the conscientious objector software developer, there’s the idea of the Non-Military Open Source License which says the military is not allowed to use the software. There’s the AGPL, which is a further left license that says if you use my website, I owe you the source, and all modifications to it. Hell, RedHat can afford the lawyers to write their own license that says companies started by Larry Ellison aren’t allowed access to the source.

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